Introduction by Sara Jane
Roy had wanted to write an essay about turning sixty years old on June 7th and I turned the tables on him - I told him that I wanted to interview him! After a decade with him, I wasn't sure how he'd react; he looked surprised, then smiled and said "Okay!" On May 27th 2008, we gathered round as he IMd with a number of Members and I asked him these questions as we enjoyed our voyage. So without further introduction, here's my man and the mortal steward for the Outlands Community - Roy Waidler
SARA: Happy birthday, hon!
ROY: Thank you Sara! And I don't mean only your wishes for my birthday, I mean for everything, all through our time together.
SARA: You are so sweet! But it's not gonna save ya - we're doing this interview.
ROY: (smiles) That's fine!
SARA: A number of our Members and Associates have been talking about past-life experiences and recently you wrote that you were a magician in the city of Alexandria Egypt for at least 200 years. What do you remember of that time?
ROY: I had good-sized home with an herbal garden, in an atrium of sorts. I have no idea about the house, how it happened that I was living there. I just did and seemed to have at least a nodding acquaintence with a lot of people. As a magician I would see a number folks in any given week. They would be ill or in some kind of jam. If I felt within my competence I'd give them herbal compounds or if someone had run foul with the law I would represent them before the court.
SARA: You said that this covered from about 360 AD into the reign of Justinian. We're talking hundreds of years here!
ROY: I'm aware of that and simply don't know what to say. But I seem to have an unbroken sense of being physically alive then.
SARA: At 60, how do you view your parents?
ROY: When I was a kid I always hoped that they would treat me "nicely," I guess with a little respect is what I mean. They just didn't. In my teens I really began to hate them both. After I got married I was treated as "adult." Which I thought was a crock: getting married didn't make me an adult, I'd been one for quite a while. Now that they're both dead, my father did an about-face and even apologized to me for being cruel to me when I was a kid. My mother seems to have hung onto the petty stuff that kept her occupied during life, like needing to control others. You remember how I felt the first time she showed up here - made me very uneasy. But they did what they did, they had been both raised violently and were told that it was love.
SARA: As in "for your own good."
ROY: Yup! My father and his boyfriend are welcome here any time. My mother will be excluded until she sees the need to change.
SARA: Do you feel that you've lived a long time?
ROY: Very rarely! (laughs) I tend more to think about how colorful my life has been. I started using marijuana when I was 12, psychedelics when I was 14, and I seem to have had a precocious love life - my first girl when I was 13, my first two guys a year after that. I've died twice and come back to tell about it. I've written stuff since I was eleven. been doing artwork longer than that. For 25 years I studied Jesus and his world in hope of untangling what went on then. I've been in a couple of threeway love affairs with other mortals. For 52 years I lived a life of rage, depression and narciccisism but thanks to you and the others here I escaped that.
SARA: You have no idea how you've changed my life. It's like we had been searching for each other for centuries and had the good fortune to find each other. How do you feel about young people?
ROY: I'm constantly amazed by them. Those who are 18 and older are the first real partakers in a truly digital life. Those under 18, I predict, will be the ones to bring down the whole artifice of civilization. Not with maliciousness, just that they won't take politics and politicians seriously, not pay taxes and other things which keep the wheels turning. I have nothing but respect for them.
SARA: After all of these years you're still affected profoundly by music. You still create some of the most edge material I've ever heard. So tell me about music!
ROY: I think it was Robin Williamson of the Incredible String Band who penned the line, "All music is prayer." It is. But it's not even close to the conventional sense of praying, where you get on your knees and ask Big Daddy for something. If it was so that as we evolved into humans we carried with us the pleasant feelings of our voices resonating in our skulls and throats, then the urge to "music" predates humanity, goes back to our relatives in the trees. When music resonates the body, all kinds of changes occur. A good beat will always getcha goin! Adrenalin goes up, breathing is a little faster, the brainwaves go more alpha - all because of sounds. I think that the word "musician" is expanding in meaning. It used to be that a kid would start taking lessons on piano, violin, flute, trumpet and would keep at it for a long time. If they had any talent at all and did their practicing, after a number of years they could be considered to be a musician. Yet today there are legions of folks who manipulate sounds, organize them and come up with very effective music.
SARA: You're thinking of rap or dance music?
ROY: Among other things, yeah. Rap and dance evolved side by side, each used samples of sounds to create a song. If you remember back to our days in the warehouse studio, you or I would get an idea to make something out of found sound. Skillfully organized and properly mixed we came up with some great stuff! But there were any number of these experiments that didn't work. The word "musician" has to now include those who build various kinds of synthesizers, both physical units and virtual, or digital ones. They need to be thoroughly schooled in what makes music, music. Also, the various mixing and editing tools available today were created by people who are familiar not only with music, but with studio techniques as well.
SARA: Do you see an end to traditional instruments being used in music?
ROY: Absolutely not. People have been writing for bowed instruments, winds, percussion and the voice since remote antiquity. Every year will still see new work for, say, violin or piano, I doubt that will ever fade.
SARA: Okay! So you're 60 years old. You're closer to your own death.
ROY: You're saying, "You're old!"
SARA: (laughs) Yeah!
ROY: I don't feel old. I don't know what "old" is supposed to feel like. I have certain limitations due to age and decrepitude. I can't run anymore because of emphysema and I can't really play guitar thanks to my arm injury three years ago. I have more than a touch of arthritis. I absolutely cannot tolerate even a small amount of alcohol in my system. But in that regard, booze doesn't owe me anything.
SARA: I couldn't believe how much you could drink even back in 2001. You'd put everyone under the table and they were all much younger than you!
ROY: I worked by the principle that I couldn't be drunk, there was still booze in the bottle. But even the idea of being a little drunk nauseates me nowadays. Occasionally I'll taste wine or beer at the back of my tongue and think, "That'd be nice!" but I know better. Finally!
SARA: Gonna press you a bit more on being older, hon! You've got these physical limitations. What about mental or emotional limitations?
ROY: I think that "maturing" in the proper sense means, coming to terms with the bullshit. There is just so much I can do nothing about! Used to anger me greatly that people were forever "breaking the rules" in any way possible, but you know? I do the same things! I piss people off simply by being myself, but at this point in my life, everyone does it. If I'd embraced my self-righteousness and anger it would have only made me bitter. Most people see "maturity" as a cynical kind of bitterness. As for how we began this subject, I've moved way up in the line as far as my mortality - the day I die - goes. Some day I'll be doing this or that and AWK! my chest! followed by a thump. Can't do anything about it except to look forward to being with you in person. I've got a lot of plans, make no mistake, but the fact is they'll be terminated some day.
SARA: Do you have any regrets? Anything you'd do over?
ROY: You just know that I'd be lying if I said "No!" I do have one great regret - although I enjoy smoking, I wish that I'd never started. When I became aware of Seima in 1991 I was nothing but, "I should have done this" and "I wish I had done that." And also, "I wish I hadn't done that." From being consumed by these thoughts and feelings all of my waking hours, I now get an occasional wistful thought. Usually these involve my relationships with people, I would have dropped this one and gone after that one; or I would have done more with people with whom I'd made acquaintance. But I was not then capable of doing the things over which I occasionally yearn. Then, sometimes "life" interfered with me, with what I was doing or wanted to do.
SARA: Like what? You usually blame yourself for everything!
ROY: Not everything, dammit! (laughs) When I was in first grade I fell in like with a girl named Joan. Joan's parents wanted to move and they did. I was really lost after that. Then when I was thirteen I met Carry. For a week we shared a wonderful and intense physical relationship. You already know this, she died when she was in the car with her mother who was dead drunk. Talk about lost! Yet and although it has taken decades, there is nothing I can do about those loses. Carry has been here a couple of times, but she seems to be on a journey and I didn't feel right asking her about it. I was grateful that she thought enough of me to seek me out and talk with me.
SARA: What about drugs?
ROY: Got any? (both laugh) I was lucky enough to have been around 12 when Tim Leary first appeared on television talking about this wonderful new chemical that he felt would lead to numerous breakthroughs in psychiatry - he was predicting curing schizophrenia if I recall properly. They didn't even call it a drug! I was also lucky to have found a huge patch of weed growing about a mile from my house. As I was a scientific nerdy kid my folks thought nothing of me bringing home armfulls of plants to "study." I studied them, alright! And because I read a great deal, I learned about using morning glories and took my first trip when I was 14. Forty four years ago. Unfortunately Tim took a left turn somewhere and thanks to his blarney and shenanigans, proper reserach into using psychedelic drugs was banned almost worldwide for over 30 years. I should add, that when Tim took that left turn, I went with him, so to speak! So for over 30 years, LSD, mescalin, psilocybin, MDMA and its cousins were outlaw substances, and this got more insane as the USA banned the usage of herbal materials as well. All the while, evidence has been piling up that under proper conditions, these things can be very beneficial to humanity. This doesn't mean, take three hits of acid and go for a ride on the freeway - before he went overboard, Tim always insisted on what he called "set and setting," that you be in a safe environment with good people for the duration and for the day after if possible. Of course, I left that by the wayside more times than I care to remember! Today, research is being permitted at last, here in the USA and abroad. It really warmed my heart that Dr. Albert Hofmann, the guy who created LSD, lived long enough to see this! The work being done today by Rick Doblin at MAPs, and the pioneering work done by Rick Strassman with DMT in the early 1990's is also a good sign. And I lived through the whole thing! How lucky am I?
SARA: How many times have you tripped?
ROY: (looks blank for a moment) I stopped counting at about 2500 times in the mid 1990's.
SARA: Some thoughts on science?
ROY: The very thing which indirectly cause us so many problems is gonna be the means to save us from them. I think. Part of the problem is how "science" and "technolgy" are often confused by most people as being one and the same. Science properly examines and tests things in whole and in part, and in relation to other things. Technology draws from such research and makes things. A microbiologist studies cells, among other things; molecular biologists make things - modifying DNA, cloning. One is a researcher; the other is a souped up mechanic. Andrei Kiryluk and I discussed that a bit, but Carl Moese wrote an important paper about just that. If you think about physics, scientists studied uranium and plutonium; the Manhatten project, the folks that built the first atomic bomb, were highly educated mechanics. I think that it would behoove the techies to work on stuff to save the earth and not to make more money or militrary superiority for some vested interest, corporate or governmental. And it would also be in the best interests of everyone if scientists and technologists talked with people who are into design. When Microsoft introduced Windows, it was functional but ugly. Apple has always had beautiful stuff, and with Vista sinking Microsoft, they're dancing desparate to copy and play catch-up. I also think that so-called "research" into paranormal subjects - like, what Outlands is about from the bottom up - should be scuttled and redesigned. J. B. Rhine spent many years proving the basic existence of four kinds of ESP - and it hasn't dented materialistic science one bit. Today Rupert Sheldrake is carrying on kinda where Rhine left off, and because he has a sense for being in the public eye - right place, right time - he's at least made his work sound plausible.
What seriously damages the credibility of paranormal stuff being taken as a real group of phenomena is the large number of people making huge profits from channeling, from teaching telepathy, going out-of-body. It has been an eyeopener for me that of the hundreds of people with whom we've corresponded in the "business," only one or two did not have profit as the be-all and end-all of their appearance in the public arena.
SARA: At the risk of making this into a commercial for the Outlands, what would you recommend?
ROY: We were told never to make money from Outlands and we haven't. We were advised not to go crazy seeking "proof;" proof that you existed in Louvain in the 1370's, that Irlene was killed in Mobile in 1970. The only proof which we've ever offered has been with the people with whom we are in contact. Some have had such strong telepathy connections with us as to be beyond doubt. With other people, it's been brick wall time. The thing is, well, my example is the telephone. At first it worked some of the time, and you risked getting a good electrical shock from the unit. Today, the concept of "telephone" has been eclipsed by handheld units like the Blakberry - computer, camera, telephone and more in something smaller than a pack of cigarettes. There's what, 30 mortal people who have at least occasional telepathic contact with others?
SARA: You mean, in the OC? Yeah, something like that.
ROY: That's the way to do it. The folks whom we've shown this to show others, and suddenly, there's a domino effect taking place. In the meantime, none of it was peer-reviewed, none of it was laughed out of court by materialists who think it's just not possible. We've made it work.
SARA: It's been over a year since Traehmlyn showed us those visions of the future. What do you make of them today?
ROY: Originally I could only see them as apocalyptic scenes of what is to come. Civilization would suddenly be destroyed and the survivors would wander the earth. I no longer see it that way. What I do see is a growing number of people saying, "the hell with all of this" and becoming self-sustaining nomads. Civilization as we know it will gradually phase out.
SARA: I know that Llam has been after you to do a blog with him about sexual spirituality at the website, but can you give us a little bit?
ROY: I would love to give you a little bit! (both laugh) One of the saddest things in Western culture is the cloud of fear that has been around our sexuality for over two thousand years. That is gonna go! Anything further than this will spoil the blog we have in the works.
SARA: That, dear husband, partner of partners, is that - happy birthday and thank you!