Outlands Community USA

ROY:  Looks like we both need to talk with each other today.

LLAM:  Oh, I agree.  Thank you for getting to work on this so quickly.

ROY:  I should be thanking you.  But, who's first?

LLAM:  Would you mind that I began?  You've not seen me upset before.

ROY:  Yeah, go ahead.  I haven't.

LLAM:   I've come to a realization about my feelings.....my feelings about mortal humans and we devas.  I have come to realize just how much we, or at least I, have short-changed you all, at least as far as our attitude goes.

ROY:  Okay.

LLAM:  To start, to start....I will never die.  As far as I know, I will never die.  Wait, wait.  I have never been physically embodied.  Instead all that I can say is that I've witnessed so many mortal human beings live and die.  I see you live, grow old, and usually with great fear, you pass into the unobstructed universe, the unobstructed life.  Minus your body.  In your lives, all of the lives which I've witnessed, I've seen so many of you who have suffered.  (pauses)

ROY:  Take your time, bro.

LLAM:  I've seen your wars.  How you are gradually destroying your world.  How one small group of you do their best to control a much larger group.....of you.  The famine and the pestilence.  Throughout all of it I have always maintained a kind of serenity because of my experience of my existence as an ethereal being.

ROY:  Whoa, whoa, I've learned from that serenity.

LLAM:  I think perhaps you may have learned from the serenity of Sara Jane, from Roland, from all of  those you love.  I don't think you've learned from mine.  You've learned a serenity, yes, a peace, a lack of fear, whatever you wish to call it.  But i sincerely doubt that you have learned it from me.

ROY:  Perhaps I've never thought about it.  But why do not accept that I feel I've learned it from you? 

LLAM:  I see that I have been too serene?  I need to explain.  I have been smug.  I've just waited for every human with whom I've had to do to come to the realization that the unobstructed life is a wonderful life.

ROY:  But Llam, my experiences have shown that it really is a wonderful life.

LLAM:  (Looks down for a moment, then directly at Roy)  You didn't always think so.

ROY:  Well, of course not, I thought I was going to go to hell, I mean, I believed that no matter what I did I was gonna fry forever.

LLAM:  That is kind of peripheral to what I'm thinking.  Last night you and Sara Jane were talking about the first time that you died.  And you told her how you felt, and for a moment you re-experienced that time.  I felt what you felt, that awful sense of loss, your sorrow.  I have never felt that before.  I never knew how....tied you all are to your experience of being an embodied being, and how at its end you so often realize how precious it was.  (bows head)

ROY: Oh, Llam.  (holds him)  Llam.  That time.  That time, when I died, I was totally lost.  Wasn't fun.  (steps back, looks at Llam)  We all have that experience though, don't we?

LLAM: (quietly)  Yeah.

ROY:  There was no Llam there then.  No Sara Jane.  I had Stro, I had Mauthara but I thought that they were aspects of my own personality, I didn't know, I didn't think that they were real people in their own right.  I was alone, really alone.

LLAM:   Would you tell the story now?  Please?

ROY:  Would it help?

LLAM:  If you can feel it as you did last night, it would help.

ROY:  I've done what is call "abreacting" those emotions.  They're still there, just as powerful as the first time, but they've lost most of their impact on me to the point where I don't, I'm not affected, or disturbed by them to the point where I'm panic-stricken as I was that evening.  So I can tell it while feeling it, yeah.  But I'm not as far as I know bothered by it.

LLAM:  You must be grateful for that.

ROY:  I am.  Okay.  It was a party I had had.  My friends at that time were over.  I was doing what I did at my parties then, drinking to excess and taking drugs of all kinds.  This time was different, I had made a thick dark tea of every herb that I knew which contained psychoactive chemicals.  And as I drank I kept sipping at this tea.  I was getting really stoned.  Many of the people there were musicians, some of them quite talented.  And one was playing the piano, one was playing guitar.  I was playing a recorder flute, settled into cushions that were spread on the floor.  I gradually passed out.  Nothing new there.  But this time I was up on the ceiling and there were my friends clustered around me and they were all upset.  I wasn't stoned any more.  I was quite lucid and I knew that was having the beginning of a near-death experience.  That lasted for a moment.  Then I was nowhere.

LLAM:  I would say that you had died at that moment.

ROY:  I would say it too!  But this "nowhere" was also "nothing."  It was so nowhere and so nothing that I was horrified and totally panic-stricken.  There was nothing I could use as a point of reference.  I was this chain of thought, if anything.  I'm at a loss, almost 25 years later.  I was a thought, or I was thinking.  But that's all that I was.  And panicking.  My thinking turned to what I had been taught about the afterlife.  At any moment I expected to see God.  I wasn't sure what God was gonna be like, but I was certain that that was next, and that it wasn't going to be pleasant.  But I wanted to badly to know something besides whatever I was.  I was all that I had.  But God never appeared.  Then I thought, well, the Devil must be coming.  I had lived my whole life fearing the Devil, fearing that I was going to hell when I died and do you know?  I was so alone I wished that the Devil would appear.  At that time burning in hell would be a relief.  But there was no Devil either.  And I saw how I had wasted my whole life, how for all that I thought I was, I was a little speck of thinking in the middle of nothing.  I began to cry.  I wanted another chance.  I wanted back and didn't think it would happen.  Suddenly I was laying on the cushions and everyone breathed a sigh of relief.  I couldn't believe that I'd come back, but I had.  And although it took twenty years for me to work out what I learned that night, I think that I have.

LLAM:  I felt again what you felt.  I have never known such desolation.  Even so, I know it now, but at one remove.  As far as I know I never shall, either.  After feeling your feelings, that's what brought me to the realization that I've never let myself understand life as you know it.  And I am sorry that I never have let myself.  But there is more to this story.  There is a deva who took on a mortal existence.  At that time I thought that it was odd but of no great consequence.  I had no desire to ever do such a thing.  In this one way we devas are like you humans, we're all different and we all have our own ideas, our own beliefs and experiences.  But this deva is suffering in his mortal frame.  I never gave it much thought.  Or if I did I thought little of it.  But I was brought up sharply about my attitude, my......indifference to the suffering that he is actually undergoing every moment of every day. I realized just how shallow my experience was, how cold my attitude was.  I just didn't know what to do, so I resolved to learn from you in a quiet way, as quietly as I could.  To pay attention to you all.  (smiles)  I hope that I've learned at least a little bit!  Even though......even though I will never know what you all live with every day, what my dear deva friend lives with, I am open to it now.  I see where I have been wrong.  So I have asked him to forgive me.  I am asking you to forgive me.  And if anyone who reads these words has been in touch with me in some way, please understand me, if you are a mortal human being, I have sold you short, I have underestimated you and the lives you live, and I am sorry.  I want to do better.  To care about you in ways that I am only beginning to understand. 

ROY:  (long silence)  If I don't forgive you, you won't be at peace, will you?

LLAM:  No.

ROY:  Okay.  I forgive you.  But Llam, it's like forgiving someone for being blind.  Okay, you say it was your indifference, your smugness.  I guess I should accept that and not say "but."

LLAM:  I would really rather you do not say "but."

ROY:  Alright.  (long silence)  Llam, I forgive you.  (longer silence)

LLAM:  (looks up)  Thank you.

ROY:  (punches Llam in the arm)  Big Blue!  You're welcome.  I love ya, dude!

LLAM:  (tearfully)  I'm beginning to understand that word also!

ROY:  (smiling ruefully)  So am I!

LLAM:  (smiles)  So how can I help you?

ROY:  (frowns)  It's the God thing again.

LLAM:  Okay.

ROY:  So here I am, proudly calling myself an atheist.  Proud and happy that I shed my notions about the big Nazi in the sky.  The idea that there is one underlying "person" that we can or would call "God."  And yet, I keep coming back to it.  This whole long discussion, the discussions I've been having with Yvgeny, I've learned that underlying our universe is a quantum sea of light from which we all have emerged.  You, Sara Jane, everyone and everything.  You know that I'm an amateur linguist?

LLAM:  Yes, quite aware.

ROY:  The origin of the English word "god" comes from an ancient ancestral language which linguists call "Indo-Aryan."  Much of this language is a painstaking reconstruction which has been done by hundreds of linguists for over one hundred and fifty years.  No-one has yet found a document written in this language, but it is a reasonable assumption that it existed at one time.  Both Mike and Stro, who were alive long enough ago to know, say that there were languages around a lot like this hypothetical Indo-Aryan.

LLAM:  I didn't know this!

ROY:  One day about thirty years ago I got it into my head, where this English word "god" came from.  So I went hunting in etymological dictionaries -

LLAM:  In what?

ROY:  (smiles) Dictionaries which attempt to show the linguistic origins of a word - its etymology.

LLAM:  Oh.

ROY:  And Llam, you know what?  "God" comes from an hypothesized Indo-Aryan word, "ghu," which means "the shining."

LLAM:  Oh dear.  And you made the connection between the quantum sea of light and this word "ghu."

ROY:  Yes, I did.  (laughs)

LLAM:  Is this a bad thing for you?

ROY:  Well, damn it, it leaves me back where I began!

LLAM:  ......with God.

ROY:  Who does not exist, of course.

LLAM:  You once told me what happens when you attempt to define something.  Do you remember what it was?

ROY:  (looks blank)......uhh, no.

LLAM:  You quoted one of those Greek philosophers you were once so fond of.  Plutarch.

ROY:  Uhh......umm......I know!  "The more you attempt to define something, the less meaning it will have!  It's like water in your hand - the more you attempt to hold on to it, the faster it runs out between your fingers!"

LLAM:  Yes!  So why bother with silly names?  Why not just accept that some people prefer to think of "god," big or small "g," and others, like you, do not.  So you've substituted "quantum sea of light" for "god."  Fine.  Do you absolutely know for sure that there is no God?

ROY:  No, I don't know that.  I learned that from Kris Michaels.  I would have to be God to know for sure whether or not God exists.

LLAM:  Can you live with that uncertainty?

ROY:  Can I avoid it? is the real question!

LLAM:  (laughing, punches Roy in the arm)  There ya go, dude!

ROY:  (from several light years away)  Yeah......!

LLAM:  Oh dear.  He's out by Andromeda or someplace like that.  If you will excuse me, I must go and retrieve our steward.  Goodbye for now!

"Luminous bliss."  From the shallows of his mind the words rose like bubbles, came to the surface, and vanished into the infinite spaces of living light that now pulsed and breathed behind his closed eyelids.  "Luminous bliss."  That was as near as one could come to it.  But it - this timeless and ever-changing Event - was something that words could only caricature and diminish, never convey.  It was not only bliss, it was also understanding.  Understanding of everything, but without knowledge of anything.  Knowledge involved a knower and all the infinite diversity of known and knowable things."

from Island, by Aldous Huxley, page 271 of the 1989 reprint edition published by Perennial Library, New York

"The underlying region described by the quantum wave function (called the implicate order by [David] Bohm) is nonlocal, as indicated by the quantum bond.  Light is also nonlocalized.  That is, if someone could ride a light beam, it would appear that time stands still.  This hidden domain can be seen as an ocean of light in which some light rays move back and forth rather than straight ahead, and it is this back and forth movement which forms particles.  How this happens is not completely understood because physicists do not have a theory covering this underlying region. But in essence, this view indicates that matter is arrested or frozen light floating in a sea of light, like an iceberg floating in the ocean."

from The Hidden Domain, by Norman Friedman, page 47 of the 1997 edition published by the Woodbridge Group, Eugene Oregon

"I propose something like this:  Imagine an infinite sea of energy filling empty space, with waves moving around in there, occasionally coming together and producing an intense pulse.  Let's say one particular pulse comes together and expands, creating our universe of space-time and matter.  But there could be other such pulses.  To us, that pulse looks like a big bang; in a greater context, it's a little ripple.  Everything emerges by unfoldment from the holomovement, then enfolds back into the implicate order.  I call the enfolding process "implicating" and the unfolding process "explicating."  The implicate and explicate together are a flowing undivided wholeness.  Every part of the universe is related to every other part but in different degrees."

David Bohm in Interview with David Bohm, by F. David Peat and John Briggs, Omni magazine, January 1987

"Socrates:  ...of motion then there are...these two kinds, change and motion in place.
Theodorus:  You are right
Socrates: And now, having made this distinction, let us address ourselves to those who say that all is motion, and ask them whether all things according to them have the two kinds of motion, and are changed as well as move in place, or is one thing moved in both ways and another in one only?
Theodorus:  Indeed, I do not know what to answer, but I think they would say that all things are moved in both ways.
Socrates:  Yes, comrade, for if not, they would have to say that the same things are in motion and at rest, and there would be no more truth in saying that all things are in motion, than that all things are at rest."

Theatatus ss182 in The Dialogues of Plato, volume 4, translated by Benjamin Jowett, Oxford University Press, Oxford, 1892

Yvgeny Porchik:  By quoting Plato your are comparing David Bohm's ideas to something of which Plato was aware, or perhapa a number of the Greek philosophers of his day.  Whether there is motion and rest, or two kinds of motion, it seems as if they knew something of this state within the quantum world, although strictly by intuition.

Roy Waidler:  I don't know that it was intuition although it could have been.  It's likely that most of the people in Plato's world had a psychedelic experience.  There was a religious rite called 'The Mysteries of Eleusis' in which those who partook in it were led through a kind of confession of sins by priests, then brought into a darkened temple and given a potion full of something very much like LSD.  After it kicked in there was a musical drama of sorts.  No matter what the drama portrayed, and even Stro doesn't know that, the people who underwent the ceremony had to have had at least a glimpse of the ethernal world.

Yvgeny Porchik:  Now I understand why you lead the quotations with the excerpt from Island!  In itself it is quite lovely and describes perfectly well what I had experienced when I was with you in altered states.  What we have come to affectionately call "the Outlands."  In my studies I can tell you that I have come to believe that something of David Bohm's "infinite sea of energy" is experienced by those who pay attention.  You see, the math allows for such a quantum state, where there is an infinite underlying reality which must be there but cannot be shown.  This is the biggest flaw in the whole notion: it can be illustrated mathematically but cannot be proven in the physical sense.  And you know that science relies upon peer review, where others can duplicate your work.

Roy Waidler:  Nothing that John Bell did, or perhaps John Wheeler, got anywhere to proving or disproving what Bohm had hypothesized?

Yngeny Porchik:  No.  The fault with David Bohm's earlier models was that they all tried to reinstate a kind of classical physics into the scheme of things.

Roy Waidler:  Suppose you explain a little bit about the world of physics for our readers?  Anyone who gets past the quotations deserves as much!

Yvgeny Porchik: (laughing)  Yes, I know that this is so!  It was not so long ago that it was all a big mystery to me!  Very well.  Physics is the study of physical reality.  That is as simply as I can put it.  Back in the time of the Greek philosopher Aristotle, who lived, what, 2300 years ago?  After our friend Plato?  It was generally agreed that the world was composed of four major elements, earth, water, air and fire.  Some went a bit further and said that these four elements were contained within a fifth, aether.  This was a bit refined, in purely scientific terms - something that could be repeated - by Empedocles, who taught that all things are composed of undivideble bits which he called "atoms."  Such was the state of practical physics until Isaac Newton.  Newton worked out, largely with math, that the universe seemed to run like a gigantic mechanism.  One of the principal ideas in Newton's physics was the notion of cause and effect, that if you did "this" then "that" happened.  Another was that we lived in a world of three dimensions, length, width and breadth, or height.

Roy Waidler:  I'm thinking of a snooker table, or a pool table.  You hit one ball which hits others and they move.  And a three dimensional picture would be the corner of a room.

Yvgeny Porchik.  Yes, that is a good example.  In the universe of Newton, things were made of smaller things, which were made of smaller things.  They worked together somewhat after the manner of gears in a very large clock.  Here is an example of that.  It was known in the 19th century that the moon was smaller than the Earth, and that the Earth was smaller than the sun.  The Earth rotated around the sun.  The moon rotated around the earth.  All three of these things, Earth, moon and sun exerted a pull of gravity on each other.  The clearest indicator of this are the ocean tides; the pull of the moon's gravity as it orbits our world is enough to pull the water of the seas along with it, creating tides.

Roy Waidler:  I suppose that that is how most of see the world, that it all meshes together.  But what happened?

Yvgeny Porchik:  There were two things that happened.  In 1905 Albert Einstein published his papers on relativity.  Two things emerged from that.  One was that there was a fourth dimension to our world and that this fourth dimension was time.  There is no clear way to illustrate that, unfortunately.  It can be shown very prettily using math, real and imaginary numbers, but I do not wish to go there now. The other thing that came out of Einstein was that because of gravity at work in these four dimensions, there were, technically speaking, no such things as straight lines.  Everything had a curve built into it, only our perceptions did not need that information to help us live, so we did not normally "see" the world that way. Of course it becomes obvious in varied altered states, but they have no practical value for navigating the physical world in an appropriate way.  The other "revolution" was the work of a Dane, Neils Bohr.  Very simply put, he said that all things may exist as either waves or as particles.  You understand waves as something that you see at the seaside, or perhaps in your work with music.

Roy Waidler:  My understanding of waves in either water or the air - that is, sound - is that it is an energy moving through them in pulses.  In the ocean, the water is actually not moving very much, but it is the energy of the wave-pulses that disturbs it.

Yvgeny Porchik:  Yes, and that is called "kinetic energy."  I would include light in your example, because light is a series of waves moving through....well, moving through the world, shall we say.  Light does not need water or air to travel in wave-pulses, as kinetic energy.

Roy Waidler:  Okay, but in each instance you're describing kinetic energy passing as waves through the world.  But Bohr said that it can manifest as particles?

Yvgeny Porchik: (sighs)  Yes.  I suppose the clearest example would be the photon.  Today everyone thinks of photons as "particles of light" and up to a point they are correct.  When a photon is a particle, it occupies a certain amount of space - not very much space, you know - and because it does, it has a weight.

Roy Waidler:  And not much weight either, I suppose.

Yvgeny Porchik:  No, not much weight either! (grins)  But the totally crazy thing about a photon as a wave is that it does not really occupy any space at all, it merely passes through it.  Passes through space as a packet of kinetic energy.  Physicists call such packets "quanta," which is where the name "quantum physics" comes from.

Roy Waidler:  By this defintion we are actually living in two worlds at once, one of solid matter and a second of kinetic energy which passes through matter.

Yvgeny Porchik:  I doubt very much that Bohr would claim as much, but as an oversimplified view, that is correct.  His ideas are known as the "Copenhagen Interpretation," by the way.  There was one other disturbing thing that arose from the Copenhagen Interpretation, that all things were in an undefinable state until they were somehow observed or recorded.  In practical terms, it sounded like they were saying that things did not exist until we looked at them.

Roy Waidler:  A few centuries ago the philosopher George Berkeley proposed that a tree which fell in a forest in which there were no people would not make any noise because there would be no-one to hear it.

Yvgeny Porchik:  What is the sound of one hand clapping, eh?  Lord Berkeley's proposal was interesting but unprovable, and it did in a certain way point ahead to quantum physics.  What drives modern physicists crazy is that they of course want to observe the unobservable, to hear that tree fall while not being in that forest, to see this undefined state of the universe while it is....shall we say, a chaotic quantum soup out of which anything and everything might emerge once it is observed. Of course they cannot do this so they do a lot of math to demonstrate that it's there and that it's doing this or that.  Many of the experiments conducted since Einstein's day have gone toward unpacking some knowledge about this chaotic quantum soup.  Very simply put, these experiments are designed to show that if the quantum world is doing "this," "that" will happen in the material world., or might.  Which is how we now have very small particles such as quarks, gluons and so forth which make up larger particles - particles, mind you - such as the more familiar electrons, protons and protons.  We will never "see" a quark, although they'll be detectable in the Large Hadron Collider experiments, but we know that they exist.  And of course, Einstein's work conflicts with the Copenhagen Interpretation.

Roy Waidler:  Is that a tale simply told?

Yvgeny Porchik:  I'll do my best!  Very simply, Einstein's view said that everything in the universe was predictable if you only had enough information.  Bohr's said that you could never know what was coming next, that the best that you could do was have levels of probability that things would occur or not occur.  Let us go back to your pool table.  In Einstein's view, if you knew exactly how much force to exert on the cue stick, and how much the balls on the table weighed, and what the precise angle was needed to hit the cue ball just so, that it struck, say, the number two ball, you would always get the two ball into the pocket you were aiming for.  But with Bohr's view, you probably would sink the shot, but then again, you just might not.  But that is modern physics very simply said.

Roy Waidler:  Alright.  So we have this quantum sea underlying all that is.  I suppose my question at this point is, is what Will Farnaby experienced in Island, and what countless other visionaries have experienced over the ages, this quantum sea...this "ocean of light"  or "infinite sea of energy;" is this actually an experience of that reality?

Yvgeny Porchik:  I wish that it were.  It is not.  It comes close.  It is a vision of that underlying sea, a reflection, a manifestation of it, but it is not as it is in its own state.  If it were an actual experience of this infinite sea, everyone would have the same vision and there would be no questions about it.  No philosophic or religious quabbles about it.

Roy Waidler:  After all of these years of voyaging "out there" I realize that all of my experiences, everyone's experiences are ultimately personal and subjective.  As such they are illusion, what the Hindus call MAYA.  Is there a qualitative difference between your experience of the universe and mine?  I'm the mortal here, you're the ethereal human.

Yvgeny Porchik:  Are you asking me to describe my perceptions?

Roy Waidler:  (grins)  I guess I am!

Yvgeny Porchik:  Well, then.  I could begin with my perception of myself.  I have no visual perception of myself per se, but I know that I am a group of quanta - packets of energy.  I f I wanted to, I would see myself as a sphere of light.

Roy Waidler:  I've seen all of you as spheres of light at one time or another.  Myself too, once or twice.

Yvgeny Porchik:  When did you see yourself as a sphere of light?

Roy Wailder:  Once when I was dead and another time when I was rolling with Sara.

Yvgeny Porchik:  You must have been hit pretty hard in that roll! (laughing)  But when I perceive your world in a way in which I can interact with it, I see it almost as you do, only the colors are much more intense and blur from one into another.  Physical motion arises up out of intersections of energy.  I see sound more than I can hear it, and I see heat and odors.  They are kinds of colors is the best that I can do to describe these things.

Roy Waidler:  So here's the big question, then.  Do things - like our universe - arise from this quantum sea?

Yvgeny Porchik:  I am studying quantum, my brother, and the best that I can tell you is, probably.   But I too have experienced the vision of it, as described by Huxley, Friedman and Bohm, and I believe that it is there.  Wherever there is!

LLAM:  Thank you for joining us today, Yvgeny!

YVGENY:  It is great pleasure to visit here.  You are all looking good.

ROY:  You are looking so radically different!

YVGENY:  Eh, I got tired of looking like a girl.  I have a beard, or did when I was alive.  Other things to remind me I am male.  I did not want to make the transition to female just yet.  I feel more like me now.

LLAM:  You are certainly more relaxed.  Must be the serenity of Angel Cove!

YVGENY:  Yes, Angel Cove is very different from Outlands.  Energy is more focused there.  That is the serenity of which you speak.

LLAM:  .....as opposed to the chaos which is going on here in Clifton!

YVGENY:  You said it, not I!
 
ROY:  Well, you need to throw a little chaos into the mix!

(Llam and Yvgeny look at Roy)

YVGENY:  He is quoting somebody.  Who?

LLAM: (rolls eyes)  Heath Ledger as the Joker in the latest Batman movie.

YVGENY:  Well, he is joker in his own way! (laughs)

ROY:  Well hey, it seemed to fit.......

(Llam pats Roy on the head)

LLAM:  My dear Roy, just as everything is normal here, for you, everything fits.  Nothing is left out in the cold!

ROY:  But everything does fit together!

YVGENY:  So in your head you can have a canned ham, a vision of the Buddha and a fractal all in one place?

ROY:  (looks surprised) ......yeah!  I should pass that one on to Sara.  It would make an interesting picture.

LLAM:  (drily)  I cannot wait.  (Roy smiles)

YVGENY:  So you are thinking of something about quantum physics.  And you'd like my input?

ROY:  Oh yes indeedy!  According to Einstein's view, because of gravity, there is a fourth dimension, time.  Is that right?

YVGENY:  Overly simplified, but yes.  Space and time are actually one thing called "spacetime."  And it is curved because of gravity.

ROY:  So the curvature of things is because of gravity?  Like, the earth being a spheroid shape?

YVGENY:  Yes.  And so throughout the universe, but as I said, it is an oversimplification.  The example often given is of a rubber sheet stretched over, say, a cylinder, and a heavy sphere - the earth - dropped onto the sheet, where it will sink a bit and tend to go toward the center of the sheet, but it can't, because gravity will give it an orbit about the center.  And so with all planets and all stars and all galaxies.

ROY:  This is where I always get confused, because I am a heavy visualizer.  I can picture the earth on a rubber sheet, but not a complex inage of everything on a myriad of sheets.

YVGENY:  This is where you and I differ.  I do not visualize, I experience these things as manipulations of numbers.  Whether such a thing can be visualized, I don't know.  You did a fine job of visualizing state vector collapse, but this is definitely much different.

ROY:  That much I understand.  But I had an idea and I think it will only make things more confusing for me, actually for a lot of us.

YVGENY:  Okay, what is the idea?

ROY:  That information is yet another dimension.

YVGENY:  So that, in the Einstein view, if taken literally, there are five dimensions, not four?  Width, height, depth, time and information?

ROY:  Yeah.  What do you think?

YVGENY:  From what I have been reading, information can be used to create physical objects.  Wil McCarthy's "Programmable Matter."  Also our friend Evan Walker Harris sometimes trested information as a dimension of sorts.

ROY:  I guess I should attempt to explain McCarthy's idea.

LLAM:  Go for it!

ROY:  (smiles at Llam)  Our reality is composed of atoms.  Every atom has a nucleus of neutrons and protons, and there is a cloud of electrons about the nucleus.  What McCarthy is doing - and I mean, actually doing - is creating something called "quantum dots," which are electrons confined within a very small space, somewhat larger than your average atom, but they behave a lot like atoms.  Because they are all the same electrical charge - negative - they repell each other within the confined area, just as they tend to do in an atom.  By varying the electrical or magnetic field around the confined area - the quantum dot - these "pseudo-atoms" can mimic any element.  McCarthy eventually will create a programmable fabric of quantum dots; although it's just in its rudimentary stages, he foresees it coming to be within fifty years.  I would refer those who are interested to www.wilmccarthy.com  for a great FAQ and some links to further material.

YVGENY:  What I am hearing is, matter can be programmed something like computer software.

LLAM:  I think that is very much what he is saying.

ROY:  Yeah, and although I loath comparing other things to computers, like our minds, or physical reality, I'll have to go along with this one.

YVGENY:  Up to a point I understand why you would dislike the comparisons, but if they work, they should be used.

ROY:  My objections.......  People like us, who are definitely out on the fringe when it comes to attempting to justify what we believe with some semblance of scientific reality, tend to grab onto the latest scientific research and say, "There!  That's what explains it!"  It doesn't. It just hides our ignorance.

LLAM:  I don't think that that is true in every instance.  No matter what skeptics say, realities like telepathy will not go away.  I think that we have done a decent job of explaining what it is and what is happening when there is a telepathic communication between two mortals.  But we have yet to explain how it works, which is not necessary right now.  Also, you (looks to Roy) had a good insight when it comes to explaining how we disembodied folks can not only exist but communicate with you mortals.  In saying that we are quantum fields, undifferentiated energy, until we are observed by a mortal mind, and then undergo state vector collapse, that is, takes on a reality, works quite well.  And you yourself compared the brain to a computer and a mind to software.  Until the software is uploaded into a computer, it's just scratches on a disk.

YVGENY:  Or information in an unreadable state!

LLAM:  Exactly!  Is there anyone alive who can examine the marks on a DVD or CD and tell what is precisely shown with that mark?  No, you must put the disk into a computer, which will read the information.  And then it will use the information.

YVGENY:  Until we come up with a better example, I think that this will work for now.  But we should qualify it for the sake of our friend here.

LLAM:  In what way?

YVGENY:  It is a model of how thing are, what reality is "really" like.  At best it is a metaphor.  It is not really reality.

ROY:  I can accept that!

LLAM:  Excellent!  Shall we close, then?  Thank for for visiting with us, Yvgeny, and send our love to Angel Cove.

YVGENY:  It was a pleasure as always, and I shall pass the love.  (Embraces Llam, then Roy)  Ohh!

LLAM:  Herr Hagenbach certainly sent us a surprise with that latest newsletter from Gaia Media:

It is possible that the next Buddha will not take the form of an individual. The next Buddha may take the form of a community – a community practicing understanding and loving kindness, a community practicing mindful living. This may be the most important thing we can do for the survival of the earth.

LLAM:   I really like this Bo Diddley fellow!  (dancing)  He just entered our end of the world recently, didn't he?

ROY:  Yes, he was kinda old.  79 or something.  Uhh, Llam?

LLAM:  (Eyes closed, swaying)  Mmmm?

ROY:  We're doing a blog entry at Mosaic Globe.

LLAM:  Mmm?  Oh! (laughs)  Sorry!

ROY:  That's fine.  Do you have any comments about the sudden growth of the other groups?

LLAM:  Yes, I do.  This is what we had told you to expect back in 2004.  We had asked you to get online so that we could be in touch with 'the others.'  Well, now, by golly, we are!  But this is just the beginning.  From the several groups which now are in touch through Outlands, others will follow.  We've successfully taught telepathy to quite a few people, and when you are in touch with our folks on the IM it is very obvious that it is working splendidly between you.  Lily Johnson may not be in touch very often by instant messenger but she has had the most amazing growth!  She has a large group of devas with her, larger than here, which is just wonderful from our viewpoint.

ROY:  Anwarii has pointed out that we are the pioneers in all of this.  I suppose that she is right but there were others before us.  Dori Hartley and Valyn.

LLAM:  What is unique about us is our aggressiveness in seeking out others who have either groups of their own, or who have the potential for gathering groups about themselves.

ROY:  Okay. (pause)  Llam?

LLAM:  This is Nightwish, isn't it?

ROY:  Yes.  Sleeping Sun.

LLAM:  That singer is wonderful.  Her name is Turla Turrernen?

ROY:  Yeah.  Llam......

LLAM:  Yes?

ROY:  What were you and Dioth and the others doing before you entered our lives?

LLAM:  Oh my!  We were actually looking for a mortal human who might help us.  We have long been aware of how screwed up the mortal world is but with the latest nonsense about 2012 getting out of control we thought that it was time to try something, anything, to stem the tide.  To at least offer an alternative.

ROY:  How long had this been going on?

LLAM:  Hard to say, but it was shortly after that MacKenna fellow began making money off the whole 2012 thing.  We devas long ago got used to the idea that "teachers" and "gurus" would be making money from whatever nonsense they were pitching, but THIS......this was too much.  So we got to talking and decided to see if there was anyone who would be able to help us.

ROY:  How in the hell did you latch onto us?

LLAM:  (grins)  Well, your personality did have a part in it.  It's more of what you weren't.

ROY:  Every time I go to say "Huh?" I know I'm in for it.  But okay: huh?

LLAM:  (laughing)  This is from Donnie Darko, isn't it?

ROY:  LLAM!

LLAM: (laughing uproariously)  You were NOT a "serious seeker."  You didn't trust too many people outside of the eight others around you.  You didn't practice yoga or meditate, you prefered using other methods.  Which you'd gotten quite good at, I must add!  Quite the bunch you were the night we arrived!  (laughs)  You had a temper and you didn't try to hide it, you were really trying to change yourself.  Also you had something we hadn't expected, your attitude about mortal sexuality.  Completely open.  You weren't deluded by the history of Christianity and your profound distrust of it was a big plus.  You have absolutely no respect for any system or group that minimizes respect for individuals.  And you have Marxist ideas.

ROY:  Wait a minute,wait a minute - you're a Marxist?

LLAM:  Hell - NO.  But you are.  Very basic, too, the way it should be, the bourgeosie capitalizes upon the work of the proletariat and it is up to the proletariat to address this imbalance.

ROY:  Uh, well, yeah, enough of this "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer" nonsense.

LLAM:  Which is something we angels have no problems with.  Which is why we're not Marxist.

ROY:  With the whole universe at your fingertips, there's no imbalance between you, I guess.

LLAM:  Umm, right.  But now it's time humanity began remembering that as well.

ROY:  WHOA!  You are one short step away from saying that we can have whatever we want.

LLAM:  No, I'm not.  The riches of the universe are yours, have no doubt, but accessing them is another story completely.  There is no one uniform secret for mortal humanity to learn in how to do this, evry last one of you is different, and too many of you are in desparate straits to even think about it.  There is one generalization but it is very broad and hard to apply to specific individuals.  It has a Marxist ring to it, actually! (smiles)  What were you telling Sara Jane the other day about that D. H. Lawrence fellow?

ROY:  Uhhhhhh....oh, his commentary on the Apocalypse made sense in a basic way.  He said that there were at least....ummm.....at least two different strands in it, one written by a slave for slaves and the other written by someone who saw theirself as autonomous; that one wrote for people of like mind.  (pauses, thinking)  Soooo.....the generalization is, slaves will have trouble finding their way to the riches of the universe?  And autonomous people will have less trouble?

LLAM:  Very well put.  But, this is where Christianity and the other similar traditions cause you mortal folks the most insidious problem: you're taught to OBEY.  You obey orders rather than pay attention to what is going on around you.  You'll never be free of it if you grew up in such a tradition either, but you may certainly minimze its influence.

ROY:  Simply by paying attention.  I think we're about to be timed out here, shall we continue this later?

LLAM:  I would love that.  Oh, your videos are marvelous, please make some more.

[It's about two hours since we left off the above conversation]

LLAM:  That was a very odd but likable song!  Who the deuce was that?

ROY:  They're called "The Cocteau Twins" and the song is "Carolyn's Fingers."

LLAM:  Oh!  .......Cock Toe?  What an odd combination.

ROY:  No, no, no, no!  It's a French last name, "Cocteau!"

LLAM:  And this is the Eurythmics?  I like this song also!

ROY:  I'm....like, really glad, man.

LLAM:  You're speaking Hippie English, you only do that when you get excited.

ROY:  Dude, like man, we are back at the blog!

LLAM:  Yes, we are, aren't we!  (smiles pleasantly)  I know this one, it's Ben Gibbard and Death Cab For Cutie!  Ummm....we were talking about slavery and slave mentality.  What were you going to say when we got timed out before?

ROY:  I thought that the first video that they made for this song sucked.

LLAM:  What?

ROY:  Gotcha!  (laughs) (Llam looking stunned)  I was going to say, there is no way that Marxism could work very well.  Up until now.

LLAM:  Oh, and I suppose you have a master plan to make it work?

ROY:  No, I don't, but I know why it hasn't worked very well up until now, and I have what I think is a great idea.  It stems from what we were saying about the Apocalypse and slavery.  In the past there have been the revolutions and they all ultimately fail.  And that is because religion has made slaves of everyone.  You can make a queen or king into a slave, but making a slave into a queen or king, well, there's a problem right there.  A slave does not think for her or himself.  How in hell will they think for an entire population?

LLAM:  So you are proposing to make everyone into kings and queens?  Isn't that something like giving nuclear weapons to every single person on the planet?

ROY:  No, but you've echoed the.....fear of the ruling elite, or the fear which the ruling elite tells the ruled will happen:  you cannot think for yourself, you cannot control your own life, only we know what is best for you.  Were you to live free of our control you would perish, maybe even destroy the world.

LLAM:  I knew that. (pauses)  So you're proposing to free everyone?  How?

ROY:  You know the answer to this also.

LLAM:  (blinks)  You wish to teach everyone to pay attention!

ROY:  Mike Archontas is working out the details for the video now.  No-one is better suited for the job!

LLAM:  Oh, I agree!  He solved the "langauage problem," he developed the "Learn Telepathy" program, all based upon paying attention.  Who's doing the music?

ROY:  Probably Sara and I.

LLAM:  It would be nice if you could ask that Lennon fellow.  I suppose there would be too many legal problems?

ROY:  Yup.  No way am I going up against Yoko Ono.

LLAM:  Why don't you ask Stro and Jane to do some work?  You have enough samples that they could work with.

ROY:  (thinking)  ......yeah!  Oh, before I forget, do you know what Gracie and Brynna have been up to?

LLAM:  Brynna said that they want to form an online feminist group for women.  Living and dead.  I'm down with that!

ROY:  And with that, we're gonna close and boogie for a while!

LLAM:  (dancing) Yessir, Ray Charles, Jerry Lee Lewis and Fats Domino!

["Jumbaliya" blasting in the background]

LLAM:  I must say, you all have been doing a splendid job keeping up as of late.  Thank you.

ROY: Wow!  Thank YOU!  I still feel like we're a month behind.

LLAM:  Perhaps you are in some things, I don't let that bother me very often.  The most important thing that you can do is to stay in touch with our Members and Associates as best you can simply because we have a number of people who are depending on us for great things and small.

ROY:  Alright.  I've been doing a lot of that lately.

LLAM:  What are those things that you're eating?

ROY: Cherries.

LLAM:  They seem to be really nutritious, are they known for that?  In the mortal world, I mean.

ROY:  I don't......really know.  I suppose that I should because I'm an amateur herbalist, but I don't.  But they sure as hell taste good.

LLAM:  So I gather! (smiles)  You and Sara did a wonderful job on that latest video.  "A Little Handbook Of Reality."  I like it a lot!  I think what I like most is that you're open about us not having "all of the answers."  Umm...you're going to get the link to YouTube?

ROY:  Yeah, brb.  Here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kZl0MoL7Pw

LLAM:  That's not going to link to one of those Ukrainian songs your daughter has been listening to, is it?

ROY: No.  I checked it when I added it.

LLAM:  You know, most of us devas don't grasp the idea of nationalities or ethnic groups very well.  Or the different religions you all seem to follow.  I mean, we have the basic facts in our minds, but it just doesn't make sense.  You're all human beings.  You're all alike in some ways, but there are physical differences enough I should think, to keep you occupied.  Three genders and something like four major races.  Seems to me that adding your beliefs into the things that separate you is needless.

ROY:  Three genders?

LLAM:  Yeah, we count those who are hermaphrodites, and who really should be the "other gender" as the third.  Just a convenience.

ROY:  I used to think that most of what we are gender-wise was hardwired into us.  Men are mostly male with a few female touches here and there.  Women are mostly female except for a few extra hairs and a tatoo on the biceps.  But it's not true!  Women have what at least socially are considered "masculine traits," while men have more "feminine"traits then they know.  The trick is in defining what is masculine and feminine.

LLAM:  So?  define!

ROY:  (sighs)  I'm gonna step in shit again, I can see it!  [Llam laughs]  Okay; first difference that makes for a definition is the body's reaction to physical pain.  Women simply can endure a lot more pain than men.  Second is physical endurance.  Women can keep at something that demands physical exertion a lot longer than men.  In the hardwiring of the brain, male brains tend for the anayltic areas while female brains seem hardwired for the intuitive side to work at peak effciency.

LLAM:  Well, a good but cautious start.  From what I see among you, it's not that women can't be logical and analytical, they just are more inclined to be intuitive.  Some of that is cultural embeds to be sure, but the nature of the brain is the ground for these things. 

ROY:  One of the things that I learned from Sara when we first met is that an ethereal person can change genders if they're of a mind.  Hold on, I want to listen to some tunes - there!

LLAM:  I like the Beach Boys.

ROY:  What?

LLAM:  I do!  That fellow Brian Wilson is one of the few people in your culture that made fun music.

ROY:  Oh.  yeah!  Well....you know, growing up, I would always listen to their stuff when it came on the radio.  I liked it then, I like it now.  And for anyone reading this, "Heroes and Villains," the original Beach Boys version, is what was just playing.

LLAM:  I like this fellow too!  Jorma Kaukonen!

ROY:  (Stares at Llam for a long moment)  Uhh, yeh, he was with the Jefferson Airplane in the 1960's.

(Llam is swaying in time with the song "Genesis")

(Roy and the rest of the OC Home start dancing and swaying)

DIOTH:  Who knew?  I should close this!  (swaying)

LLAM: It seems that we have a lot to discuss this time. We may set a record for "long blog entries!"

ROY: As long as we keep it interesting, I'm down with that. Good to have you home, by the way.

LLAM: Thank you! Shouldn't that be "btw?"

ROY: Oh my goodness, yes! This will be on the Internet! I fergot!

LLAM: Looks like Lily is off to a flying start. She ran right past us in the boot camp thing. It took us four years and here it is, what, a month? And she's in full gear! I love it!

ROY: Well, you told us that we were the first of our kind, and don't forget - you had me to deal with as far as making progress.

LLAM: (rolls his eyes) Yes, we did, didn't we! But I'm terribly glad that she has done so much in so short a space! Did you see that "thank you" she left for us at Deviant Art? It made me want to cry for joy.

ROY: Same here. How many groups are there now?

LLAM: Well, there's Angel Cove - and she was "here" long before Outlands; Black Sinobi; the lady in Florida; Jackie still has a few entities around her; Anwarii has her group; Lily down in Texas; and although he hasn't said anything - yet - Swaroop has a group - but he's trying to figure out what's going on. Lastly there is Joey up in Canada. Nine.

ROY: I count the same way, Llam.

LLAM: Well, for all I know, you might use different number systems if it took your fancy!

ROY: (laughs) This is true! I suppose that Irlene and the dolphins ought to count as another group. Which is the perfect segue into the second item on our list. You tell 'em.

LLAM: Very well. For those of you who follow the Community's goings on closely, one of the original Dolphin girls, Eva Carr, is moving to the mid-North Atlantic in the Sargasso Sea. Eri will be with her as her guiding deva. others will be joining her, Brynna said she would like to take part in that. Although they will maintain contact with the dolphins and whales, they are there to scope out the place, there is a lot going on in the area which needs our attention. The sea floor is undergoing significant changes and some of the fish and crustaceans have undergone minor but significant evolutionary changes for the better. So we should be getting some news from them over the next while.

ROY: Cool! Now, I must get on you about something you said the other day. You pretty much implied that Iwas going to live a long time. You never tell us anything like that, so what's up with that?

LLAM: Well, just to make it interesting, what did that man you helped out say to you? "you're going to live a long time." You will. Partly it's in your genetic make-up, you come from long lived stock. But there's something else. Your genetic make-up also includes a peculiar sequence which makes it really hard to kill you. Grigori Rasputin had the same gene.

ROY: Oh, that's good news....me an' Rasputin. (rolls his eyes)

LLAM: You could have gone his route but you didn't. If you think about it, there are a lot of parallels btween you both.

ROY: Like WHAT!?, fer chrissakes?

LLAM: You both are known for a lifelong interest in spiritual matters, You both have very unorthodox views about sexuality - he viewed sexual intimacy as a form of communion with god, something which you hung onto until a couple of years ago. You both are known for being able to get the attention of some very important people. And it is just plain hard to kill someone with that gene. How many times should you have died?

ROY: At least five. I did die twice. So did a number of people in the Community, like eleven. Okay, you made your point - but I will not be enticing the Bushes into bed with me any time soon, the way he did with the Tsar and Tsarina.

LLAM: Also, you both have some healing ability.

ROY: Llam, you keep talking about him in present-tense. He's DEAD.

LLAM: He reincarnated. He knows who he was.

ROY: It's not Dave Chappelle, is it?

LLAM: No. But he's living in Toronto.

ROY: And you're not telling me anything more either, right?

LLAM: Right, simply because I don't know any more. Oh, he's like thirteen.

ROY: Alright. (pauses) This thing about me living for a long time, it's weird how the whole topic came about, at least from my end. You recall about four days ago that I had said that I don't mind getting old, I don't have a problem with dying, but I do not want ot be decrepit or an invalid for twenty or thirty years.

LLAM: If you do become less limited in your physical abilities, I mean because of your arthritis and emphysema, you'll still be quite active. And what you're talking about is different from what other older mortal humans live with. They don't want to die so they opt for staying alive hooked up to all kinds of equipment, and taking all kinds of medication. They are afraid that they're going to hell.

ROY: Okay, yeh, I'm not afraid of that crap anymore. You know about that dream that I had.

LLAM: Where the world was so, that no matter what anyone did, they were going to hell when they died? Pretty vivid.

ROY: That's the way I actually see Western culture. People would like to believe in a good and loving god, that they will "go to heaven," but they all have this unrealistic certainty that they're damned. There are so many, too many people who, deep down, believe that. It colors the whole world in an awful way. So they will do anything to stay alive. Anything. Me, I wanna let go, but I made my promises to be here, so it's immaterial.

LLAM: You're overlooking one pertinent fact about yourself, my friend. You are possibly the most cunning and inventive mortal human I've ever met.

ROY: (face brightens) Really!? Llam!

LLAM: You would find a way to be mobile and doing your thing if you had no arms or legs and were deaf and blind. And you'd cackle with glee the whole

time!

ROY: (looking smug) Yes, I would, wouldn't I? But it really doesn't matter in the long run, I'll live quite well as far as possible, I mean, no matter how decrepit I get - but I still don't cotton to the idea. I mean to move as far away from Judeo-Christian concepts as I can. I don't know that it's possible to be free altogether, but if I someday am not recognized as having to do with the whole tradition that would be fine.

LLAM: What about those Christians who seek to "save" you?

ROY: Look, pal, I'm not the one that doesn't need saving at this point, it's THEM. They need to be saved from the most hideous idea we have going on the planet.

LLAM: That's pretty rough!

ROY: Llam! We get told that "God is love." What a beautiful idea! Then it comes about that because we sin we are separate from God. So there's no way out except to "accept Jesus as my savior." Which sounds pretty easy: you confess that you're a sinner, you ask him for forgivenss and into your life and you're all quits with the past. Only, like Soviet Communism, it doesn't work because it can't work. And it's not "love" that underlies the whole thing, it's FEAR. Believe it or go straight to hell. Somewhere we lost the idea of a God of love. Perversity, the devil - their devil - couldn't have come up with anything better than this!

LLAM: From my vantage of eternity there is no accounting for evil if you believe in a good god.

ROY: Llam, you're exposing yourself here......

LLAM: I know it, and it's deliberate. (brow wrinkles and nostrils flare) You poor bastards have suffered enough! It is in your biological make-up to fear, to get angry and to act on these things. If it weren't an amoeba would have gotten the whole lot of you when you were still single-cell creatures. Get a frigging cigarette and keep typing!

ROY: Uhh, yessir.

LLAM: I think that it's time that we devas took a stand with you mortal and immortal humans. We don't endure fear or illness, we have nothing which preys upon us, I mean there are no predators looking to have one of us for lunch. As far as I can tell we are eternal, I have no remembrance of being born, of being young and growing up, I have always been - at least that is how it seems. Maybe there was a time when I was not but I have no knowledge of it. Now although you are immortal you have to go through multitudinous changes before you arrive at a stable existence that even comes close to ours. Look at Seima: one of the first humans, millions of years old, a deva of another class but one with an origin. Someday that'll be you - but someday when, unless the universe speeds up the evolution of everyone alive today, you've a bit of a wait. So it is time that we took part in your lives as our brothers and sisters, and to stop playing our aloof and eternal selves. Get this part, none of us will be "fighting your battles for you," that's still your preserve, but the rest of humanity is going to become much more aware of us in the next few years. We want to force the hands of fear that are strangling your world. It's one thing to sit here in the unobstructed and watch the generations go flying by like the seconds ticking away on one of those damned clocks of yours. That's ended today. We will be standing by you.

ROY: (silence)

LLAM: Weren't ready for that, were you? (laughs)

ROY: .......no.

LLAM: Good! But think about it. You became aware of Seima seventeen years ago and it took you that long to get here. Lily has been aware of hers for a month, Joey for a few days and they're right up here with us.

ROY: But that was part of the plan all along, right?

LLAM: Absolutely correct, my friend! The domino effect is happening as we speak. Here's a little scenario for you: the controlling forces of the world attempt to interfere with one or another of you. Only, you have insights gained from the unobstructed, your levels of fear are going down and you're not going to be hurt by them. Or stopped or much troubled. And you have us to guide you.

ROY: I guess that explains the intuition I've had as of late, that we are becoming invisible to the world.

LLAM: More like, not noticed. "Where are those Outlanders?" Right under your noses! And they go looking for what they will not see because you cannot exist - science says so! The church says so! Psychology says so! And here you all are, Outlanding away and laughing about it!

ROY: That is inspiring. Wow.

LLAM: So let us close and get this posted! (laughing uproariously)

LLAM:  As always, thank you for joining me here today.

ROY:  My pleasure, Llam.  Sorry for the delay.  I had been reluctant to get going on this one because I've never thought it through.  Then I realized, I don't have to think anything through.  It's already thought somewhere.

LLAM:  That's nice and confusing for a start!  There are a number of people who visit this site for the first time and who will read what you just wrote and say "WTF?"

ROY:  So you want me to explain that.

LLAM:  Yup!

ROY:  (groans)

LLAM:  (laughs)  What's the matter - got a headache?

ROY:  Yeah, and I - LLAM!

LLAM:  (laughing)  I know that you really do, but I have to tell you, you've done some of your best writing when you're either dead tired or not feeling well.

ROY:  That's because I concentrate more on what I'm writing than on how I'm feeling.  I think.  Well, my thoughts think them, I don't know if I think anymore.

LLAM:  (smilies expectantly)

ROY:  So okay, for those of you who are new to Outlands and this blog, we feel that our consciousness does not reside in our physical brains, rather that we use our brains like we would a computer or an automobile.  Gets you from point A to point B.  Although there really isn't a point A or B.  And by the way that Llam is grinning, I know that I've only muddied the water some more, so lemme try again.  We are spiritual entities who use physical bodies.  When we reside solely in the "spiritual realm," what we call the "unobstructed universe," we are technically DEAD.  Although having lived with all of you spiritual folks these last......seventeen years or longer, you're all pretty lively.  But whilst engaged in "being alive" in the mortal end of the universe, and I mean by being a living breathing human being, we are not our bodies and brains.  We use them as means of communication - among other things.  We communicate firstly with our own selves in ways that we, as dwellers in the mortal realm, can easily comprehend.  We do this primarily by our emotions and feelings.  However, to communicate with another living human, we need a language; ergo, language arises from our emotions.  All human language is a highly modified set of cries, sighs and groans, highly organized in something of a fractal manner.

LLAM:  And that, ladies and gentlemen, is our mortal steward writing with a headache!  So what's all this stuff about sex and spirituality?  It's what the people are waiting for.

ROY:  Sex sells, Llam.  Anyway.

LLAM:  You stopped to think again.

ROY:  Yyyeeeeahhhhhhh.  Mostly to catch my breath.  From our viewpoint, sexual intimacy is a high form of communication.  Lately it is also a way to communicate sexually transmitted diseases but things weren't always like that.  Originally it was the best way to communicate one's emotions to another.  Those emotions were not as clouded with fear and anger as they are today, so of course today too many people are having miserable sex lives.  It doesn't have to be that way.

LLAM:  Watch it, you're sounding like a deva here!

ROY:  Perish forbid!  (laughs)  Today's blog entry is pretty straight forward.  Although I'll give a little history lesson somewhere, I advise anyone reading this to rid yourself of fear and watch your intimate life take a dramatic change for the better.  Of course, that's real easy for me to write, so I suppose I'd better explain how. It would be like a therapist telling you to "let go of your past" without explaining how.  It would help if you knew a little of the history of how our lives became so raddled with fear and anger.

LLAM:  And this is the history lesson?

ROY:  Yup!  At one time we enjoyed our physical bodies with each other, communicating with those whom we desired in the most intimate way possible - we made love with them.  Gender was not a considertion.  This began to change about 6000 years ago when a new gene appeared in our species Homo sapiens.  This gene made us a lot more aggressive.  A little aggressive can be good, helps keep the ferocious saber-tooth cats that used to like to eat us away.  However it inevitably occured that someone thought of turning this aggressiveness on their social peers.  Thus arose the first warrior castes and priestly castes.  Since this gene was not going to go away, it eventually happened that a whole group ran itself on aggressive lines, complete with warriors and priests.  The function of the warriors was to wage war - bug duh there - and the job of the priests was to tell people what they could and could not experience of the spiritual realm.  More often than not the priesthoods issued prohibitions and claimed that direct experience with the "divine" was their sole right and jurisdiction.  They confabulated a deity.  Most of the time this "deity" was nasty and demanded that people obey it or ELSE.  But it didn't - and doesn't - exist.  Now you could not enjoy sexual communication with those whom you loved; sexual love was confined to making more human beings, ahh, "be fruitful and multiply."

LLAM:  Why do you think that was?

ROY: Gaurenteed more warriors and priests - and in the case of the Indo-European people who subverted Judaism in the 6th century BC, made sure that women were forever second-class citizens.

LLAM:  Okay, you've illustrated the history of the Western world, but what do people do about it nowadays?  You're right as far as people being in chains sexually.  Of all of the things which makes we devas unhappy, it is the loneliness of you mortal folks who cannot communicate with your partners.  I'm aware that there are a small number of you who do, but by and large, you're all isolated in your selves.

ROY:  First thing is, I ask you, gentle reader, to consider that virtually everything that you've learned about sexuality is wrong.  That's a pretty tall order, I realize, but I'm asking you to at least think of the possibility.  Let me give you a little list:  Gay sex is wrong.  Sex is only for procreation.  Women are second-class sex-objects meant to gratify a man's lust.  A man has no control over his desires.  In a million words, WRONG.

LLAM:  I'll pick up a bit here, okay?  (Roy nods)  If you are attracted to your own sex, everything which you have learned which says in your head that it's wrong is a cultural overlay, a meme, which you absorbed from the world you lived in - which was created and refined by the aggressive priesthoods and warriors Roy mentioned earlier.  If you can embrace that this is a lie, you're on your way to being free of it - you are creating another memem, one which says that it is a form of holiness.  Procreation is an incidental by-product of the parsimony of evolution.  Somewhere in the deep evolutionary past a gene sequence emerged that bound sexual pleasure with procreation.  Women and men are not at all in a class structure, one superior to the other; rather, "male and Female" are two covalent kinds of humanity - and I might add, of we devas and angels as well.  And men who believe that they havve no control over their sexual desires are lying to themselves.  Know and understand these lies and you can create a sexual spirituality for yourselves.

LLAM:  Thanks for coming here with me tonight.  I know that your head is full of ideas for the new website we're planning, and its contents.

ROY:  (glares at Llam)  Hey, the art work is important!

LLAM:  Oh, I suppose that it is.  Just another example of my angelic viewpoint, I guess - you see one human couple mating, you've seen them all.

ROY:  That could sound pretty cheesy! (laughs)

LLAM:  There you go again with one of those human metaphors that just escapes me.  How do you mortals relate "cheese" with human sexual intimacy?

ROY:  Well, you see -

LLAM:  (interrupting) I was afraid you'd explain it to me, please, I know the answer, I've been with humanity from the first.

ROY:  Oh.  (after a pause)  Spoilsport!  (Llam laughs)  Well, I guess that that's our introduction!

LLAM:  Umm, you'd best explain that this blog will be about two things.

ROY:  Uhh, Llam, you just did.

LLAM:  Oh.  (brightly) Yes, I did!  Well, since I'm talking - (pauses, looks at Roy) - or writing, for goodness' sake, I'll keep right on going.  I am very pleased to announce that we are starting work on a completely new website.  We're going to pay for the domain and pay to have the pages made by one of our Members - Valyn.  You won't be seeing it for a while but we'll post Updates by e-mail.  The website is tenatively named "spiritualsexuality dot com" and pending our getting a webhost congenial with our aim, the URL should be something quite like that.  As of today Internet searches showed that there were no sites by that name; I realize that that is not conclusive but that's it in a nutshell.  Ling created a sample page which she sent to Valyn as a model and I must say it is probably the most beautiful example of her work I've yet seen.  (looks at Roy)  I should keep going?  (Roy nods)  The website will be pretty much an art gallery with a home page and a contact page and that's it.  Text will be on the homepage only.  The gallery - and this is the heart of the matter - will be photomanipulations of people in various poses of human sexual intimacy.  It is intended as a wordless illustration of how human sexual experience can be the single most profound thing that a mortal can know, that it is in fact divine.

ROY:  One of the things about which I'm a little sad is that we can't post the sample webpage picture in any of our homes on the Internet.  I agree, it is one of the most spectacular things that Ling has ever done.  However, we'll e-mail you a copy if you send us a request - just please state in your request that you are legally able to receive the picture where you live.  Laws about depicting human sexual activity, even photomanipulations, are quite diverse.  Oh yeah, all of the models will be over the age of eighteen.  I think that covers everything.

LLAM:  Not quite.  These pictures will not be copyrighted and will be available for free downloading.  There, that's it, unless you want to go into some more detail?

ROY:  No, that's fine.  Now for the second part - human evolution?

LLAM:  Excellent! (smiles)  Back in 1998 you got it into your head that some of your music could help humanity evolve.  Did you ever think about it much?

ROY:  No.  It popped into my head one night with such force that I knew that it was true.  Sara and I had been working in the studio, possibly on Part of a Process, when I realized that we were doing a lot more than messing around with weird sounds and orchestrating them.  It was after that that I got a copy of Karlheinz Stockhausen's book, Towards a Cosmic Music, that I realized that despite my being part of an older kind of humanity, nevertheless I had some very clear ideas of what was coming in the years ahead as far as music was concerned.  What I learned from his book was that he had exactly the same intuitions, or prophetic ideas,if you will, but some time before I got around to them.  There was no logic in my ideas, either, I mean, I didn't come about them logically.  They just popped into my head: you listen to this stuff, you're gonna start making changes in the DNA.  And to be quite honest, at the time I thought that was a bit far out.  Now I'm comfortable with the idea.  I think that Tim Leary's saying that technology is built into our DNA is right on the money; but he wasn't talking only about "building machines" per se, he was thinking ahead to things like altering our own DNA for the better - and that's already underway.  In other applications of the idea, he was referring at least obliquely to the continuous development of computers and to nanotech also.  But if I'm right, and I think that I am, I'm just a part of this whole new evolutionary swirl.  The music, yeah, but we're the ones who've demonstrated how easy telepathy is, this after 160 years of mumbo with jumbo.  And although I took your "Evolu" pictures partly on faith, working with Ling and the ArtGroup has certainly expanded my imagination.  And this is just the beginning.

LLAM:  Yes indeed.  I see that some of you mortal folks are realizing that you've actually evolved quite recently.  There are two new genes on the human genome which aqppeared 37,000 and 5800 years ago respectively and they have spread rapidly through humanity.  They're actually still working changes in you guys.  Some of the changes that I expect to see are mortal humans needing a lot less sleep, being able to process roughly 100 times the information that you do at this time, and the ability to withstand a hell of a lot more ultraviolet light.  I am correct, am I not, in saying that evolutiuon is spurred by irritants in the environment?

ROY:  A very elegant and simple way of saying it, yes.  But that's not all.  I had to go through an enormous amount of literature on psychology to see if maybe I was crazy after all - being able to percieve you and such - and one of the things which stuck out was that many of the things labelled as "conditions" or "disorders" may be anything but.  Multiple personality disorder? Leave off the word "disorder" and what do you get?  A human being with multiple personalities.  Not veryone with multiple personalities is in a pathological state.  Also, consider autism - being able to live in very specific, highly tuned states for special purposes.  That is what autism boils down to - it's just that the world has had no place for autistic people so far.  It's the same with a percentage of people with MPD or DID; if you are actually several people in one body, you've got quite an internal economy going on in yourself.  One human body with three, seven, thirty minds.  And it isn't a brain pathology; human conciousness is not created by the brain, it uses the brain.  Seeking etiology in childhood trauma is a dead end.  It may be that a large number of people with multiple personalities happened to have had a childhood filled with sexual or violent physical abuse, but I tend to think that this abuse was merely a detonator of sorts.

LLAM:  If you're saying that a child is pushed by such savagery beyond known limitations, those limitations which were understood by mortals up until now,I agree.  What is different in what you are posing here is that the results of being raped or battered have changed.  Up until now, and I do mean within your lifetime and up until the present day, kids either went catatonic, became muderously inhumane or commited suicide.  I see that this is changing.  Children who are abused are learning to escape the confines of the body and to come back to it with others in tow.  Thus, multiple personalities.  But because the quotient of fear is begining to diminish in your world, you'll be seeing a lot less of multiple personality disorder.  And that, my friend, is what I call evolution.  Hopefully, those who learned this, or were "detonated" as you say, will be the last to learn this in such a violent and horrendous way.  Once the meme is established that you can have multiple personalities and have them without being abused as a child,  things will change dramatically for the better.  Ummm, do you mind if I include you under the umbrella of human evolutionary change?

ROY:  Me?  With my humble ego?  Gosh, Llam, I -

LLAM: - walked into that one, didn't I? (laughs)  Okay, you were sexually abused as a kid and you were beaten.  You didn't go catatonic or psychotic, you don't have multiple personalities.  The therapists you've seen have agreed that you were narcissicistic, that you had rage problems and that you were depressed most of the time.  To which I would add, you have a tough time not being an outlaw.  Oh, no, PLEASE don't quote Cicero to me -

ROY: (grinning) "Men of the Roman senate, when we had few laws we had few criminals; now we have many laws and many criminals!"  (laughs)

LLAM:  (glares)  I am so tired of hearing you say that!

ROY:  Alright, but I'm not only excusing myself here.  I'm sorry, dude, didn't mean to piss you off.

LLAM:  It' alright.  (looks away, then begins to laugh)

ROY:  Arghh!  Got me again!  (laughs)  But seriously, Llam, I'll add another thing which our continuing evolution is going to bring about:  the laws will change radically.

ROY:  This is some great stuff!  It's like things are moving!  Tell us a few things, huh?

LLAM:  What you and some of our Members and Associates have been experiencing is a further awakening of your abilities to perceive the unobstructed universe.  Also, those who have had little experience of our end of the universe are now suddenly getting their first taste, as it were.  As a result of this, more people are finding themselves with their own Communities, which is what we'd hoped for.

ROY:  Okay, makes sense.  From our perspective there was just us in 2005, then we met Dori Hartley, then four others.

LLAM:  Don't you have clearance to name them?

ROY:  I'm not sure and I'd rather get this published today, you know that getting permissions is kinda long sometimes.

LLAM:  That's fine.  So, I would like to make something of an announcement for our Members, Associates and anyone who just happens to visit out of the blue.

ROY:  Do you need a drum-roll?

LLAM; (glares at Roy, then smiles)  No, fireworks will be fine!  I want everyone to be aware that in your lives personally and in the mortal world at large, there is going to be an increase in evident activity by devas and angels, whatever you care to call us.  This will be accompanied by an increase in your telepathic and empathic abilities, but you'll find you'll be able to handle the increased input without overloading.  You should expect the occasional vision or three as well, imagery of what is to come.  For those hoping to see the world destroyed, ain't gonna happen, so put away the popcorn.  But what I wanted to tip the rest of you folks about is that some of you will be getting visits from dark entities.  PLEASE do not be in a rush to dismiss or banish these folks, especially if they are super-angry with humanity.  Better than 6000 years ago a number of them were imprisoned in what are called "metadomes" and are still operational today.  We have had our part in liberating two groups so far and they tell the same tale - being lured into an energy field by a conniving priesthood, then imprisoned in the hopes of getting them to do the bidding of these priests.  It didn't work and eventually that pre-Pharoanic kingdom was destroyed, along with the knowledge of the imprisioned dark devas/angels.  Should you be contacted by any kind of dark entity, please e-mail us at the main Community e-mail;  outlands.community@gmail.com  and we'll help in any way that we can.  I cannot stress enough that it will be likely that these dark folks will be very angry, so be prepared - and offer them help and love, they will accept it.  Be aware also that being in direct contact with one of them can give you a migraine and nausea, so limit your time with them at first - and eat a good meal after.

LLAM:  Well, you guys are finally getting your wish!

ROY:  Should I play dumb and ask, "Oh?  What wish is that?"

LLAM:  (smugly)  Only if it's playing!

ROY:  (nostrils slightly flared)  Okay, Big Blue, ya got me!  Ladys and gentlemen, without further ado, Llam is going to talk about Life, the Universe and Everything!

LLAM:  Watch it, you're setting yourself up for a lawsuit from the guy who wrote the book!

ROY:  Oh yeh.

LLAM:  I wanted to go over some of the ideas that you mortal folks, and some of you ethereal folks also, have been putting out lately.  I must say that I'm pretty pleased overall.  First is your idea that consciousness is not at all located in the human brain.  Excellent!  Like you've said, it lives there, but does not originate there.  So I'd like to enlarge a bit.

ROY:  We're listening.  You devas rarely "reveal" anything.

LLAM:  That's just us being prudent.  Look what happened when Gabriel visited some woman named maryam in Palestine a couple of thousand years ago.  He let Christianity loose on the world.

ROY:  You're saying that maybe he should have kept his mouth shut, let her and the baby fend for themselves?

LLAM:  Think about it!  Even if it's whole cloth, people believed it at the time that the story got into the Gospels.  How long after his birth was that?

ROY:  Hundred years, max.  Which means that it was in circulation for a while.  Even if there were similar stories going around about other people of the day -

LLAM:  Like who?

ROY:  Umm, Apollonius of Tyana, for one.  He lived around the same time.  There were stories about Julius Caesar's family that hinted at the same thing, a god came to visit Tiberius' mother, I think.  I no longer remember, but the idea was in circulation: a woman is pregnant and some deva pays her a visit and says her baby is gonna be something else again.

LLAM:  Okay, but as far as I've learned, Caesar's family didn't do too well, right?  And Apollonius of Tyana got beaten in the polls by Jesus.

ROY:  Right, Caesar's family ended with Nero, a charming representative of humanity.  They were all bastards as far as I'm concerned.  And Apollonius didn't land in the middle of Palestine during a non-stop desire to kick the Romans out, he was born in the boondocks of what is now modern-day Turkey.

LLAM: So there you have it, someone like myself opens his big mouth and what does the world get for it?  Normally I'd rather you guys figure this stuff out for yourself.  You've been doing a lot of that lately, so I am going to make some suggestions for you to think about.  These are not divine pronouncements, okay?  Not a matter of, "Here's how things are and you guys hafta fall in line, there's no other way to go."  I repeat, some suggestions.

ROY:  That's fine.

LLAM:  Okay, you have this idea that consciousness is not located in the human brain.  So where is it really?

ROY:  Huh?

LLAM:  Let me put this another way, and again as a question:  Is your consciousness located in one place?

ROY:  Huh?

LLAM:  It's about time I managed to get you with your jaw dropped.  This is long overdue! (laughs)  Here's my first suggestion and you might refer to qunatum physics if you wish; might make this a bit clearer.  Because you mortal folks have been enculturated into thinking that your consciousnes occupies a specific place - somewhere in the human brain - if you do away with that idea I know that you'll keep right on thinking that your specific mind, your consciousness is located in one specific place in the universe.

ROY:  You're right, I would think that out of habit, I wouldn't really give it any thought.  Not for a long time, anyway.

LLAM:  Even if some other people might think past that - perfectly possible, mind you - the majority of people will think in terms of a specific location.  Here's where you might want to think about something similar in qunatum physics: can an electron be located in any one specific place about a nucleus?

ROY: (after staring blankly for a moment)  No, it could be anywhere, and its location cannot be predicted or detected.  Yet it's there simply because the math says that it is; it's somewhere around the nucleus.  In that sense, it's everywhere and nowhere.

LLAM:  Same thing with your consciousness.  I have another, different model.  What was the name of that software that you had that let you download stuff a little at a time?

ROY:  BitTorrent.  It gathered bits and pieces of the files we wanted from many computers which shared BitTorrent's software and knit them together in Old Sparky; then the software fed it back into the BitTorrent....ummm.....network, a few bytes at a time.

LLAM:  Okay, that's what I was looking for.  Many years ago you developed a theory about reincarnation which said that at physical death some people remained pretty intact while others broke into little bits and pieces.  Those who remained in, say, a large chunk of their mortal self had a better time navigating over here, and could make choices, like go back, or stay here.

ROY:  I never worked it out that much, but yeh, that's the basic idea.  On the other hand, those people who broke up into many fragments had to find a way to reassemble a personality - not their personality necessarily, but one that functioned.  So they would grab a piece here, a piece there, and eventually have a brand new person made of recycled whatevers.  Soul bits?  Soul bytes?

LLAM:  It works well enough as a model.  It's not absolute, okay?

ROY:  Didn't think so.

LLAM:  At the same time, now you've got a universe full of little bits and pieces of people gravitating towards other bits.  This explains why Homer depicted the souls in Hades to be pale, frail whisps of things.  Also why the ancient Chinese recognized that ghosts could die and become shadows of themselves, literally.

ROY:  Sounds pretty chaotic!

LLAM:  Oh, it is, it is!  Think about it - all of these things flying around, how do you think that affects your physical perceptions when you're aware of them?

ROY:  Llam, I saw this one coming: it explains why dreams are so weird.

LLAM: It sure does.  When you're asleep, most of your enculturated notions of "how the world really is" are held in suspension; they're simply not available to you.

ROY:  Ummmm.....how is that?  If our consciousness is not located in our brains, why does going to sleep - which involves some drastic rearranging of neurochemistry - have such a profund influence on what we perceive in dreams?

LLAM:  Your consciousness is enculturated enough to umm, switch modes.  Now you lay you down to sleep, and all of your waking predispositions are put on hold; your personality does not have to go along with the waking world because you are not in it.  That too is a habit.  Awake, embrace the current model; go to sleep, go for the real thing.  Something your race learned very early.

ROY:  Why?

LLAM:  To keep from getting eaten.  There was a species of cat that liked hominids.  The most important job for an early human was to pay close attention to the immediate environment: no sense pondering the solar wind if you're gonna get chewed up while doing it.  So early on, the unobstructed universe was deliberately put on the back burner so's you great-grandpa could attend to the tigers and lions and bears.

ROY: That's almost a lawsuit, buddy.  The Wizard of Oz.

LLAM:  (smiling) Ooops!  But there is a ramification of this whole back-burnering of the unobstructed.  Your bodies got addicted to fear responses, or to fear.  That's why fear is the big seller in the media.  Your bodies want the response it gets in and through your hormonal systems.  Your personalities, or consciousnesses, whatever, are not thrilled with living in what amounts to perpetual fear.  And so we segue into, the natural place of fear in a human being's life.

ROY:  Nicely done.  This is what Dioth talked about a couple of days after our journey to the Outlands on the 7th.  He said that we had successfully begun the push to get fear back into its natural place, a background against which love can shine.

LLAM:  Exactly, and I must say, I'm proud of the whole lot of you.  You, for staying at the keyboard for so many hours, and engaging shanoxilt and Jackie in conversation; SonShon and Terrence for monitoring and channeling the sexual energy passing through all of us; Sara Jane for watch-dogging the whole voyage and taking notes, you really did well!

ROY:  Why, Llam, thank you!

LLAM:  So let me ask you another question:  Are you as filled with fear as you were say, two months ago?

ROY: (after a short reflective pause) No.  No, I'm not, and if you recall, I didn't suffer much from the "Tuesdays" this time.  The most that happened was I got pissed off about little things.

LLAM:  That's an indicator right there.  Your body has begun to learn that it doesn't need fear to live.  From fear comes anger, and from anger comes -

ROY:  Most of the bad crap we live with.

LLAM:  Now, can you tell us how you learned that?  What did you learn?

ROY:  Huh?

LLAM:  (smiling, then chuckling) Twice in one night!

ROY: (finally laughs) Okay, you're on a roll, Llam.  How did I learn it?  Hmmm!  Because I lived for a few hours utterly without fear and WITH a sense of.......DOING, of doing something, of doing something important.  You know my life, that I wasted so many years doing things that I thought were important, and really, in the eternal view of things, they weren't.  Or, as in some few specific concerns of mine, aren't.

LLAM:  You had a telepathy feedback loop going with both of them that night, shanoxilt and jackie.  Some of it was feedforward - you even talked about that.  Because you weren't looking for sabertooth cats while you were awake, you were able to transmit a lot: wonder, love, energy - and they sent it back to you.  And very little of it was fear-based.  You've established a model of living with much less fear, and you three specifically did it in a telepathic bond.  And with that, I think we should close.  Thanks, man!

ROY:  You're welcome, Llam.  This has been a real romp!

LLAM:  I nust say, you took me by surprise with this one!

ROY:  How so?

LLAM:  (looks to the right) Ohhh...just been staring humanity in the face since (mumbles) (then, smiles)  You recall Julian Jaynes quite well.  There's a big clue there in when he's describing what Homeric consciousness may have been like - people heard 'gods' telling them what to do, they didn't think for themselves.

ROY:  As in, the principle is the same as what we are going to offer to the world today.  (Llam nods)  In both instances, what we call consciousness does not originate in our heads, it comes from elsewhere.  In Homer's day the voice? direction? ideas or mentatation? about what to do next came from 'gods.'  Today, we have something similar to offer.  (Smiles at Llam expectantly)

LLAM:  You want me to make the announcement?

ROY:  It would be cool to have a deva make a cosmic revelation, yeh, but it would make you seem.....authoritatarian, I guess.

LLAM:  (imperiously)  Hi! I'm Llam from on high and I bring you a holy revelation from Heaven!  Fear not!

ROY:  Oh, it's YOU, it's YOU!

LLAM:  (giggles)

ROY:  Anyhoo, oh Members, oh Associates, oh dear Visitors - including the nut who keeps sending us e-mail asking about us and when we reply their e-mail addy disappears - we have a positional statement to make today.  For the last couple of hundred years the scientific view has been, human consciousness resides within the human brain.  Very common-sense and very wrong.  Human consciousness does not reside in the brain.  It uses the brain.  It may put up curtains and bring in furniture to make itself comfortable, but it does not live there.  The brain receives consciousness kind of like a radio or television receives its signals.  When a television is turned off the signals are still being broadcast, they're still 'in the air.'  In a similar way, when a human brain is turned off - when we're dead - the signals are still in the air.

LLAM:  You ought to tell how you stumbled upon this one.

ROY:  Yeh, I will.  If I can stop making typos.  But I wanted to conclude my opening statement by saying, as a channeler, everyone in the world does channeling every day.  Every person in the world channels themselves.  Now as for how I came upon this idea, I've been trading e-mails and comments with a new Associate and I made mention that when I am very tired I can't think and often have the sense that I'm channeling myself.  I feel braindead when I first waken and find 'thinking' very difficult.  Yet I can do everything else that I do when I'm supposedly wide awake when it comes to writing, talking, turning over ideas.  And in talking here with Roland an Sara Jane I protested that I needed my logical facilities to be able to make sense and got told that I did not.

LLAM:  Then the big light came ON!

ROY:  Right! (grins smugly)  We've fooled ourselves into thinking that we need to have conscious control over our thinking processes, which, if you think about it, we most certainly do not have.  If I say, "Don't think about having sex!" you will think about having sex.  We have little control over the thoughts that pop into our heads simply because that's all that they do - they pop into our heads, one after the other, which is what you would expect from a disembodied intelligence that doesn't know that it's disembodied.

LLAM:  My thoughts come in just such a stream.  I have no say in what's coming next.  I'm disembodied, but I know that I am.  The fact is, the consciousness of anyone or anything including the consciousness you claim for Old Sparky is everywhere.  The universe is a grid of integrated consciousnesses.  And the capper to this is that it makes the strongest case possible for survival of death.

ROY:  Uh, Llam?  You're pontificating there, watch it, buddy!

LLAM:  Oh yeh.  Don't want to sound like Elias or Seth.

ROY:  Throughout all of this, I kept thinking about how Joan of Arc has said repeatedly that when she was alive that everyone thought that they were going to go to Hell when they died.  Her revelation was that this just was not so.   And it is not so!  When we die we will keep right on going - as we are.  So that should be food for thought - if you live by a bunch of misconceptions you've gathered while alive, you'll have them in the afterlife for a bit.

LLAM:  Kind of like Jerry Falwall finding out he had made a couple of mistakes!

ROY:  You have news about him?

LLAM:  Only that he was shocked beyond belief.  "Where's Jesus?  Where's the Heavenly Father?"  So he decided to go back.

ROY:  Christ on his throne, NO.  Let's close on that, huh?

LLAM:  Right.  Good day!

 

Posted at my blog at Xanga ~ ROY:  Thanks for agreeing to do this, I had a feeling you might be a little reluctant. LLAM:  I'm reluctant to be portrayed inaccurately.  If we discuss this it shall become clear. (smiles) ROY:  To begin, we've learned so much from you, Dioth, Hurrain and the others and there are no words to thank you enough. LLAM:  Just doing my job. ROY:  I live in the mortal world as we call it, having a body of flesh.  You do not.  Can you describe the world in which you live? LLAM:  Dr. Marti Barham called it the "unobstructed universe."  That is a fine descriptor but doesn't tell you very much if you don't know what it means.  To live in the flesh as you do means that the chances are good that the culture within which you live will blind you to this unobstructed world.  For several thousand years now there have been individual people who have taken it upon themselves to eradicate those like yourself who perceive this world of mine - which is really yours also.  Supposedly mortal humans have a gene which allows them to perceive the unobstructed, but this is a quality of all matter, all material substance.  Were you somehow to "blind" a fish to the fact that it lived in water nonetheless its body would behave as if it was indeed living in water.  It couldn't help that simply because it was living in water.  Your body and the body of every living human being lives in the same relation to the unobstructed universe.  Only, your culture has decreed that it, and myself, do not exist. Now to answer your question.  I am a spiritual entity and I do not have material substance as you know it, but I have substance nonetheless.  Based upon current mortal human knowledge I am hazarding a guess that you'd say we were composed of neutrinos.  When you die you too shall be composed of neutrinos.  There may be as-of-yet unanamed quantum particleswhich fit the job better, but for today, neutrinos will do fine.  They have next to nothing for mass.  This explains why we can go through walls and umm (smiling) defensive barriers. ROY:  I suppose I should check with John K. Harms about that. (John K. Harms is a Professional Associate of the Outlands Community USA whose specialty is quantum physics theory, he's at http://www.johnkharms.com )  His information is pretty up on that. LLAM:  He says the same thing as I have at one point, as when he says that the whole world is supernatural. ROY:  Oh yeh. LLAM:  But I live in the larger world, so to speak.  Size is a terrible metaphor - ROY:  Yeah, we're not talking about sex - LLAM:  (glares, then laughs) - right!  But it IS a terrible metaphor.  In reality the mortal realm is as everywhere as the immortal one.  It is that for you human folks, your home, Earth, is terribly local and terribly important, so it does loom large in your minds.  No doubt were you living off Proxima Centauri you'd feel the same.  But the arena of events in your lives, and for those of us angelic or devic beings who've taken part, it is the most important thing, at least for now.  My concern is for Sara Jane and yourself, the Community, the world.  I should point out that evryone, every human being has an angelic guide of some kind.  And I wish to be clear, these beings are guides, they are not guards or guardians.  You must be in touch with us for us to be able to help you. ROY:  Don't you interfere, or warn us at least once in a while? LLAM:  No.  Any premonition of danger which you have, any seeming miraculaous preservation of your life is usually your own larger mind acting in your, umm, defense.  That car accident you had in 1966 where you should all have died is an example.  One of the few exceptions was when Hurrain saved your ass in Gillette in 1991.  You'd fallen asleep and spun out - ROY:  I remember that very clearly, but I SAW him bounce the truck into a safe place into the woods. LLAM:  Exception, not the rule.  But as guides, we can only tell you things, show you things. ROY: One of the things which would piss me off when you all first arrived was that you wouldn't tell us things that you know about certain, umm, mysteries.  But now I'm beginning to understand why.  Your view of the universe differs sharply from mine. LLAM:  Which is what I just said.  I live in eternity.  You do too, you just cannot perceive it well. ROY: (laughing) ain't that the truth!  But here is what this little chat is about.  At the beginning I thought "Oh cool, angels, we'll be learning so much from them!"  I never gave a thought that you would be learning from us. LLAM:  I feel that I have learned as much from you mortal folks as you have from us.  I could not in the beginning understand why you took some things so seriously.  Politics for example, or the laws of your government or of other governments.  I could not understand how you could not see through the deceptive manipulations of some of the people around you.  I would say to myself, "Does he not see that?"  No, you didn't, and I began to learn just how local your focus was. ROY:  And so I began to learn to shift my focus to larger things. LLAM:  Which was good, it is a good thing, when you die you'll at least know a little of what's going on and not be stumbling around going "WTF?"  Shame we can't cuss online.  But here is what I and the others had to learn:  that you focus on the mortal realm in which you live is what you should be doing and what you should take seriously.  Yes, you would agree with me that 100 years from now it will not matter very much that you ran out of coffee on December 12th, but on December 12th you were starting to have withdrawal symptoms. ROY:  That's because I drink so goddam much coffee! LLAM:  You can write "goddam?" and not get hit by the webmaster for it? ROY:  It's not one fo the "Seven Words You Can't Say On Television." LLAM:  Oh, you mean, you can prick your finger but - ROY: - you can't finger your - LLAM:  (very loudly) I LIKE GEORGE CARLIN!

ROY:  I think that it's a good idea to "get out among the world" as we've been doing.  I've never thought of carrying on conversations with established groups online.

LLAM:  My idea was that it was time to talk with other groups of different stripes, different individuals as well.  The Outlands Community has done well in our opinion but it's also insular.  You attracted a comment from a chaos theorist recently, I was impressed by that.

ROY:  You were?

LLAM:  (somewhat surprised)  Yes.  Also that you got replies from that fellow with the blog and from the rep of that futurist group.  Very nice.  I know that you can talk and write but honestly I thought that they would ignore you.

ROY:  As long as they're not too busy they'll usually reply.  This goes back to the 1980's, I used to write to people who'd written books.  I got a letter from R. Gordon Wasson once, although it was a disappointment.  He said that my idea was too hard to follow.

LLAM:  (smiling) Was this a case of you being as clear as mud?

ROY:  Possibly.  He was 87 at the time and said that he was failing.  I was giving The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind a fresh reread and this after going through some of the ancient Semitic law texts - the Hammurabi code, the Assyrian Laws, the Bible.  All of them had prohibitions against shamanistic practices.  My thought was that shamanism there at that time possibly included the use of some kind of psychedelic.  I wanted his opinion.

LLAM:  You're going to re-present it to the Julian Jaynes Society?

ROY:  When I get my sources together, yes.  It's twenty years later and there is now good circumstantial evidence that some of the Biblical writers used an ayahuasca-type of substance.  Back in the 1980's all that we had was John Allegro's book The Mushroom and the Cross.

LLAM:  Which I've heard you say is right for all of the wrong reasons.

ROY:  Well, yeah, it is.  I do not know to this day how common the Amanita mushroon is in Palestine, if it even grows there.  (Makes note to research "fungi in Palestine)   Or if it ever did.  Or if it ever grew in Egypt.  Allegro was a linguist and he proposed dozens of words in Sumerian, which is really going out on a limb.  All of them tried connecting words for 'semen' and 'mushroom juice,' 'phallus' with 'mushroom.'  His work was roundly denounced by fellow linguists as untenable, but that threw the baby out with the bathwater.  The fact remained, at least to me, that some Biblical writers used psychedelics.

LLAM:  According to Mike Archontas, they did.  Hemp among them.

ROY:  I suppose that I'd better consult with him, he was there.  But I guess that we've gotten off-track here.  If we've recently joined your organization or forum, we're going to be taking part in your discussions. 

LLAM:  Welcome to the Outlands!

ROY:  In our last little talk Joan of Arc had just made a statement and SonShon was about to make one, but "events transpired" and this is the first chance we've had to get together to continue the discussion.  Thank you for joining us, love!

SonShon:  I've been looking forward to it, I think the little interim gave me time to think things out a little more clearly.  It's funny how, when I'm around you mortal folks, I notice time more.  We all do.

ROY:  Is it like an irritant?

SonShon:  More like a steady background noise which comes to our attention.  We should have a talk about that someday!

LLAM:  Here, here!  I was about to suggest that we bring in other Members in our chats here anyway.

ROY:  I'm down with that, it sometimes feels like I'm pontificating.

SonShon:  Guess that makes you the pontiff, huh?

ROY: [loudly] SonShon!  [laughter from Llam]

LLAM:  You caught him off-guard with that one!

SonShon:  Well.....I wanted to say something about Kali, and some of the other goddesses of my time.  I chose Kali because I invoked her last year when I saw how the war in Iraq and Afghanistan was going.  Whether or not there is a Kali, or Ishtar, or Ceridwenn is almost beside the point.  Kali I chose because she represents a pre-Aryan goddess, who is the image of a woman of that time, if you think about it.  For the last three hundred years male scholars have secretly either feared or adored her because of her power - but her power is strictly feminine, which is something most men do not understand.  I can put it briefly:  male power is little more than aggression; female power is control.  A man may plan to fight, to war, but a woman has already won it.  In invoking Kali I am sending a call to all women to waken their "Kali-self," if you would, because there are few women with that much awareness of their power today.  And yes, it is about power; power to nurture, power to love, power to be untrammeled by anything at all.  Think of the old icons of Kali dancing with an intoxicated expression on the corpse of her lover.  That is what ruled the world then.

ROY:  I'll ask you, sort of, what I asked Joan: do you believe in Goddess?

SonShon:  I don't know.  It sometimes felt in the old days as if I, or we, were touched by some feminine energy that seemed limitless.  At that time we would call it or her, Goddess, yes.  But today, having lived among you for a while, I've seen some incredible power coming from somewhere.  It strikes me in the same way.  But here is what I had time to think about, it's a